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Trust Your Tongue - Wine, Truth and Bias, more added Sort by:
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BurgundyAntoine
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Posted on 08/28/2010


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Tinkerbelle
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Posted on 09/03/2010

I totally agree with you Qrtr. The apparent tastes and characteristics from rock and clay and metals can never be transferred through the soil and have a bearing on the flavour. Yes as you quite rightly say the components of the soil and the ways in which the grapes are vinified make a difference to the flavours. Also in part the actual vinification process. I believe as I mentioned in an earlier post that in using more modern technology to make the wine, this in itself removes much of the originality of the finished product . What essentially was the heart and soul of original winemaking and has made and set new standards for the wine industry and that in itself although has increased production but the wine has also lost something in its sublety and complexity of flavours



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Curious2078
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Posted on 09/02/2010

Burgundy, please, please, please forgive my most severe hijack on GentlyWoman's behalf.  Like she says....stick around.  You just might like what happens.  We are indeed a "quirky" bunch as she says....  AND hijacks often lead to the MOST interesting blogs of all....
 
Pat



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Curious2078
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Posted on 09/02/2010

Tink, my previous post aside....USA wines are indeed rather dull in their sameness.  And Americans are still pretty dopey when it comes to saying whether a wine is sweet or dry or semi sweet or semi dry.....  These distinctions were well established by Europeans long before America ever got into the wine-making scene/competition.  And still, from everything I read, what the average American wine drinker thinks is a sweet wine, the average European would call OVERLY sweet, fit for nothing but an accompaniment to Cheesecake!!!!
And what the average American wine drinker would call a dry wine---any European who has ever drunk more than two glasses of wine in his/her life would call "sweet." 

I don't know....I never did learn to understand the French wine distinctions, though I tried.  [Cost prevented so much tasting....LOLOLOL] 

So.....we have a long way to go when it comes to how we--the global "WE" -- define wines.
Personally, what I call a "sweet" red is something all my American friends call "dry."  What I call a nicely dry red is something all my American friends call "vinegar."
Oh, well....whatever suits your palate....pour a glass of it, swirll it, sniff the aroma, sip it, and enjoy....
 
Here's to wine!  A gift from God.  Surely he didn't create all those different grapes just so we could eat them and be done with them.....  He showed us what happens when they ferment for a reason!!!!!!!!!!! 
 
SALUTE!!!!!!!!!!  And Slainte!!!!!!!!!!
 
Pat



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rmac22
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Posted on 09/02/2010

@GentlyWoman

Please ignore random strange-man. His opinion is worthless. You look fine. I do not want to carry on about it, but you look fine.

@BurgundyAntoine

Sorry for the hijack above, but some things need saying. re your blog, I love wine. Can not pretend any expertise at all except knowing when I like it.

rmac

rmac



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Tinkerbelle
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Posted on 09/02/2010

IMHO just for balance , I want to say this. Theres a lot to be said for the diversity and subtlety of French wines. Granted the New World got them out of trouble in the 1800s when the vine stocks were blighted by botrytis and the New world sent us root stocks that were uncontaminated thus saving the wine industry.
The new world granted has made great strides in wine production, but in doing so and using the most modern technology to produce quality wines for everyone they have also lost something. They make a quality chardonnay both with and without oak but i have to say they are all a bit samey, and I feel the same goes for the other varieties they offer. In short I feel they have standardised wine, producing wines so that each variety is the same, and that in a way is a pity. With their high tech production methods, plastic corks and screw tops they probably have less spoiled bottles but are lacking in the very thing that makes wine delicious and special. The uniqueness of each bottle
In France and im having to pinch myself in standing up for the French [loath them as I do] Each wine from each vinyard, and each bottle is subtly different and I personally prefer them. Yes sometimes one can buy a case and each bottle is unique....... but I like that



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Curious2078
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Posted on 09/01/2010

Oh, Gently, my friend--you just said it ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Wine snobs---get thee to the vinyard nether regions with undue haste perforce....  Let the rest of us taste, taste, spit or not---enjoy---and make up our own minds with no one "judging" us as "inferior" tasters.
 
The best thing that ever happened to wine was liberating it from FRANCE!!!!  Seeing American wines, Austrailan wines, South American wines, etc....coming to the fore--and competing with those French snobs and WINNING in championship testings run by the FRENCH!!!!!!!!!!   Plus....now that the French wines are only a minor piece of the market here in the US....the definitions....the meanings of different grapes....all of that has come out of the snobbery closet for all of us non-winemakers to be able to understand and make easy sense of.  AND be able to remember when we go to the liquor store and want to buy a wine made from a grape we already know we like. 
Thanks for the post, BurgundyAntoione.  You've elicited responses from some of the best/most interesting bloggers on here.
 
Pat



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QrtrRacer
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Posted on 09/01/2010

Quoting Tinkerbelle

qrtr Very interesting that you should write about terroir. Of course wines reflect the earth they are grown from but I think what started out as an interesting reflection on the reason wines bear subtle but different characteristics, from vinyard to vinyard, quickly became jumped on by wine  experts and gastronomes, to 'sex up' as we say, the wine business.
 
 While terroir should have made a few notes in the margin of the annals of wine. it  has in fact become become a veritable book thus , I feel overcomplicating the subject wouldnt you agree?
 
I have heard many descriptions from the pundits , likening the taste of wine to the taste of a cutlery drawer, old socks  and a mouldy cupboard in particular to explain the unusual flavours found in a good Mersault. All very entertaining but is it germane? hmm not sure


Interesting concepts you offer Ms. Tinkerbelle…I agree the subject of terroir has become overcomplicated and perhaps overrated.

If you ask a hundred people about the meaning of terroir, they’ll give you a hundred definitions, which can be as literal as tasting limestone or as metaphorical as a feeling. Terroir flavors are generally characterized as earthiness and minerality. On the other hand, wines with flavors of berries or tropical fruits and little or no minerality are therefore assumed not to have as clear a connection to the earth, which means they could have come from anywhere, and are thought to bear the mark of human intervention.

It seems confusing especially given that wine is made from fruit. It gets worse when you ask winemakers about how to get the flavors from the rocks into the glass. According to them, a good expression of terroir requires more work in the vineyards, or possibly less. It’s the hotter climate in California that leads to its high-alcohol, fruit-forward, terroir-less style, or possibly not.
The effects of a place on a wine are far more complex than simply tasting the earth beneath the vine. Great wines are produced on many different soil types, from limestone to granite to clay, in places where the vines get just enough water and nourishment from the soil to grow without deficiencies and where the climate allows the grapes to ripen slowly but fully. It’s also true that different soils can elicit different flavors from the same grape.
Researchers in Spain recently compared wines from the same clone of Grenache grafted on the same rootstock, harvested and vinified in exactly the same way, but grown in two vineyards 1,600 feet apart, one with a soil significantly richer in potassium, calcium and nitrogen. The wines from the mineral-rich soil were higher in apparent density, alcohol and ripe-raisiny aromas. Wines from the poorer soil were higher in acid, astringency and apple like aromas. The different soils produced different flavors, but they were flavors of fruit and of the yeast fermentation. What about the flavors of soil and granite and limestone that wine experts describe as minerality — a term oddly missing from most formal treatises on wine flavor? Do they really go straight from the earth to the wine to the discerning palate?
I would choose to say no.




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Tinkerbelle
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Posted on 08/31/2010

qrtr Very interesting that you should write about terroir. Of course wines reflect the earth they are grown from but I think what started out as an interesting reflection on the reason wines bear subtle but different characteristics, from vinyard to vinyard, quickly became jumped on by wine  experts and gastronomes, to 'sex up' as we say, the wine business.
 
 While terroir should have made a few notes in the margin of the annals of wine. it  has in fact become become a veritable book thus , I feel overcomplicating the subject wouldnt you agree?
 
I have heard many descriptions from the pundits , likening the taste of wine to the taste of a cutlery drawer, old socks  and a mouldy cupboard in particular to explain the unusual flavours found in a good Mersault. All very entertaining but is it germane? hmm not sure



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GentlyWoman
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Posted on 08/31/2010

Oh, Tink, please, fashion diva, demystify for me your issue with jeans...imho, they can be worn with heels AND a tiarra.  I am loathe to admit, but a random stranger-man told me just today that if I was more feminine, I would not still be single. Not girly enough, and I should hire a coach to teach me some womanly ways. Pray, Tink, do tell - are YOU for hire?
 
Erm, sorry for the hijack, Burgundy, but you must know already that we are an unruly bunch of quirky people. C'mon, stick around, you might find you like us :) 



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QrtrRacer
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Posted on 08/31/2010

It’s hard to have a conversation about wine without thinking of the French word terroir. Derived from a Latin root meaning “earth,” terroir describes the relationship between a wine and the specific place that it comes from. For example some wine “gurus” say the characteristic mineralality of wines from Chablis comes from the limestone beds beneath the vineyards (although, they generally admit they’ve never actually tasted limestone).
The idea that one can taste the earth in a wine is appealing, a welcome link to nature and place in a delocalized world. The place where grapes are grown clearly affects the wine that is made from them, but it’s not a straightforward matter of tasting the earth.
If the earth “speaks” through wine, it’s only after its murmurings have been translated into a very different language, the chemistry of the living grape and microbe. We don’t taste a place in a wine. We taste a wine from a place — the special qualities that a place enables grapes and yeasts to express, aided and abetted by the grower and winemaker.
Since there’s so little consensus among winemakers about how to foster the expression of place in their wines, what are wine experts tasting?

How can a place or a soil express itself through wine?

Does terroir really exist?
I think the answer lies in the complex relationship between tradition, culture and taste. Those wine professionals have all spent vast amounts of time and energy learning what traditional European wines taste like, region by region, winery by winery, vineyard by vineyard. The version of terroir that many of them hold is that those wines taste the way they do because of the enduring natural setting, i.e., the rocks and soil. The wines taste the way they do because people have chosen to emphasize flavors that please them.

Interesting post Burgundy!



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Tinkerbelle
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Posted on 08/31/2010

demystification is right and needed Eva. Sometimes the more we know the  worse things become. Some folk have made careers out of overcomplicating the wine business and its WRONG. Wine is for all. Drink and enjoy I say!



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GentlyWoman
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Posted on 08/30/2010

So, here I am, in wine country (Napa, Sonoma), and I see that someone opens a topic about wine...how could I possibly resist?
 
In these parts, wine tasting is a regular activity.  And yes, some of us spit.  I've got a good friend, a known wine writer and sommelier, who conducts, at his home, regular tastings, from very expensive, highly acclaimed wines to others some unknown guy made a barrel of in his basement from grapes he grew in his backyard.  
 
We have still, of course, what I like to call the "Whine Club".  It's members are the ones that won't touch anything that costs less than a C-note, or has been aged less than a decade, or was concocted by a guy with actual mud on his boots.  Many times, the tastings my friends participate in are blind - you don't know who made it, what it's been rated, or even if someone tastes cherry while someone else tastes chocolate.  It's about me, my palate, whether it hits me, my own mouth, in a way that's pleasing.  
 
One of my favorite movements in this region is about demystification.  It's not so common anymore, at least in Napa, to be schooled by a smug suit that declares the taste of pencil-lead or tobacco to be a an absolute, and still finds himself to be soaked in admiration by mere mortals lacking his profundity.  Usually, that guy is just tooting because his tie is just not QUITE loud enough.  This is agriculture, folks, not rocket science. I don't always LIKE what I'm "supposed" to LIKE.
 
I've honestly found certain bottles of two-buck chuck that were simply fine table wine.  Oh, and of course, the stuff WAY off my map, in terms of price.  Like Tink said, there IS a difference, like what what your best jeans do for the rear-view :)



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Tinkerbelle
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Posted on 08/29/2010

At last Burgundy a blog worth posting on!
 
Im a very keen wine quaffer. I enjoy it and ive studied it somewhat. It is the nectar of the Gods.
 
Wine has been both the drink of the masses and the priviledge of the few for centuries. How can something so simple be also so complex both in its construction and its perception?
 
Its such a pity that many are daunted by the hype which surrounds wine , with the experts constantly trying to raise the bar on awareness, by using language which directly and indirectly alienates the drinking public. On some levels a knowledge of wine reflects directly on ones social standing. So much is made of the wordy descriptions of wine its no wonder the great drinking public feel overwhelmed by it. In recent years wine being more widely available has both become much more popular but has also polarised drinkers in to two camps. Those who know about wine and those who dont. I dont think we can undersetimate the damage the snobbery surrounding the wine industry has done to sales.
 
The rule of thumb as we all know is that if you like it , drink it. There should be no rights or wrongs in wine consumption. The old days of drinking white with fish and red with meat are well and truly over thank God, only to have been replaced by a greater understanding of wines complimenting and adding to the experience of the meal of stimulating the palate as an exciting aperitif.
 
I have been fortunate to have sampled some of the worlds finest wines. I have been a collector of wine for more than 25 years and have  been fortunate enough to have sampled many different wines from the simple and less expensive to those costing more. Each has a place on my table. Like anything else , wine is a matter of personal taste. Yes it helps if one can distinguish between one which is good and one which is corked, but at the end of the day it matters not what the pundits say, because all palates are different. I have drunk some highly fancied wines only to find them disappointing. That in itself doesnt make the experts wrong it just means the wine wasnt to my taste. The point is that wine notes are just that.... notes , a guide  not set in stone
 
A friend of mine a year or so ago treated me to a bottle of Petrus. I was so excited because of the reputation this wine has and because $4000 is not a figure I would ever consider spending on a bottle no matter what it is.
 
My experience of it was this. It was good in colour , heady on the nose full of fruit . It was unbelieveably smooth on the tongue with a complexity and fullness of flavour I had never experienced but at the same time it was incredibly subtle. The finish was long and lingering and for some time after the swallow I was still revelling in its soft fruity notes. It was tannic enough to be robust but it wasnt overpowering.
 
All in all it was sublime. I realise why in part its so expensive and the marketing that surrounds the vinyard is second do none, constantly reinforcing its standing and position in the world of wine.
 
Would I drink it again? of course, Is any bottle of wine worth that kind of money? Hmm not sure. Having said that my dear Burgundy its all relative isnt it. If I had the means I probably would
Yes I would sing a sonnet to wine, would you?
 



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